Andrew Street
If you are looking to hear about what’s around the corner with digital marketing for car dealerships, you’re in the right place. I’m Andrew Street. Welcome to Word on the Street where we have conversations with people doing cool stuff in auto, and I am joined here by Sean McLean and Chris Kerr from Clarivoy. And gentlemen, from my observation, what you guys originally are best known for is like adding a lot of context and clarity to where the customer or dealerships comes from and the journey it took them to get there to help them make smarter advertising decisions. Is that a fair assumption? 

Chris Kerr
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having us on. We unfortunately don’t have fancy microphones like the people here at Dealer OMG, but hopefully you can hear us all right. 

Andrew Street
Thanks for noticing. We put ’em in the screen so people can see that we’re invested into this.

Chris Kerr
Brilliant. Love it. 

Andrew Street
So what I like about you guys is for one, you guys are legit people who, who’ve got real products that help advertisers be better, help dealers make smarter decisions. But what popped up on my radar in the last couple months is the ability that you guys have to do identity-based retargeting without cookies. Can you guys, do you wanna touch on how you guys came up with it? Because, and then I could jump into the results because it’s working really well for my end, and I could highlight that in a minute. But I just wanna hear kind of like the origins of how you guys got this off the ground. 

Chris Kerr
Yeah, that’s, you know, it’s, it’s been a long road actually. In fact, Sean will will go into it here in a minute, but he was really kind of our alpha tester and helped build this and now runs the product. So he knows the most about it. But I think it started for us a couple of years ago when Steve White, our founder, was speaking at driving sales and he was talking about the deprecation of the third party cookie and the impact that it was having. I think a lot of people hear that it’s coming and we’re hearing that it was coming and or they need to prepare for that. But, the reality is it’s already happened with Safari, Apple, through the Safari browser has already blocked third party cookies. You got also, you know, Firefox Duck Duck Go. Others that are already impacting dealers. And their ability, for example, to retarget to people that come to the website, which is a big piece of it.  It’s a small audience, but it’s a big important piece of, you know, a dealership’s website traffic to make sure that you are targeting. So, I’d say that’s when it started, because we found this whole, we, you know, we, we are. Constantly working with dealers and helping them understand what works and what doesn’t work, and trying to optimize and change. And we’re always doing this and we see all of these dealers suddenly buying these large in-market audiences that it’s really model data. It’s not really truly in market. And they’re doing it outta necessity. They’re doing it outta necessity because their retargeting audience continues to shrink. Right. And they have to, they have to, you know, market themselves. So, we talked about it, we tried to coach, uh, people on, you know, where to spend your dollars first, right? So we talked about first party data and your, you know, sales and service records and your CRM records and then your website traffic is another layer of first party data that I don’t think a lot of people know. And while we wanted to help, we’ve never wanted to cross the line into advertising, right? We’ve always wanted to be the company outside that is measuring and helping dealers and agencies optimize and get better, right? It’s, we’re not the, you know, we don’t, we’re not saying bringing a hatchet and cut things off. We’re saying, let’s turn some knobs, turn up, turn down. Let’s measure that right, and then adjust accordingly. So we really never wanted to cross this world into advertising and media. It’s really hard to be the premier measurement resource in the industry if you are also selling media. And so that’s a bit of a challenge, and one that we started to work with our client here at the time, Sean McLean, when he was at the dealership, because he had some ideas on ways that he could utilize some of our data to do some better retargeting. So I’ll let maybe Sean. Talk a little bit about that and go into some, a little bit of, you know, as, as far as depth goes there. Because I think he really had a big role and still does in that now. 

Sean McLean
Yeah. Thank you Chris. It was fun working Clarivoy through that process and it was frustrating up until that point because you were exactly right, because Firefox and Safari and cookie blocking browsers were inhibiting my retargeting audiences, which was an audience that I had historically used. I became guilty just like many others, using in these (air quotes)”in market audiences”, that would drive traffic but not results. Results of that was measuring through Clarivoy, and then once able to resolve those identities and get a true in-market audience of people that were on your website. That was really exciting. Now the application of agencies to be able to use that open opportunity for them to benefit their clients as well. 

Andrew Street
Like I, I think it sounds like a smart puzzle piece that you guys are continually refining and, and maintaining. Cause it’s easy to accidentally become an ad agency. I’ve noticed if you’ve got that sharp piece of tech that can generate  something that dealers would need to take action on or an advertiser would need to take action on, they often don’t take action on and they’re like, this is great, but we’re not doing anything with it. Then it’s easy for you guys to be like, okay. We’ll do it and then look back a year later. You’re a full-blown ad agency, which wasn’t the intent ever. So Sean, it sounds like you had some time under the hood working with Clarivoy and using them to, to measure the hard conversions. I imagine that you were looking for the phone calls, the leads, the credit apps on the website.

Sean McLean
Yeah, primarily measuring those internally for myself, but ultimately what mattered to me was sales, you know. We could have a hundred leads, a thousand leads, ’cause they don’t equate to sales and they didn’t matter to me. So that’s ultimately what I wanted to measure. 

Andrew Street
Okay. And then it sounds like in the last six months or so, you guys have been able to start rolling this out, start testing it with stores and now we’re testing it with you guys for us to be able to use. We’re using are retargeting pixels that our team’s customizing for event tracking on a couple of different dealerships. And what I’ve seen is that we’ve got, with one dealer, it was like 50,000 people in a retargeting pool. So they’ve come by the website, we’ve identified them, what they’re looking at to be able to reconnect with them, which is great ’cause now we’re not introducing the dealership. They know who we are, we know, we know who they know, who the dealership is. We’re able to start putting more prescriptive messages, pull ’em down the funnel, and it’s about 50,000 people over 180 days. We’ve been with you guys having your script on the website. No pixel. And it’s got about 50,000 people also, but it’s only been 60 days. And so I just doing the napkin math, that’s, you know, a third of the volume that we have of a retargeting audience that you guys are able to generate because of all the Safari traffic that we’re generating from mobile, from iOS devices, from oper– from Mac devices. So it’s working. And I imagine you guys know that, cause I saw it said three times the audience size on the website, and that’s exactly what we’re seeing on our side. 

David Lemmon
Three times.

Andrew Street
Yeah.

David Lemmon
I’ll tell you another, another kind of anecdotal story that we ran into that ended up being awesome. Unfortunately awesome. One of our shared clients is a Chevy store. And currently there’s a compliance company out there, I’m not gonna throw the name around (it’s Comply Auto). And they’re selling a GLBA compliance package. Dealers are freaked out about GLBA, sort of rightfully so. So you guys know GLBA has nothing to do with browser privacy or pixels or cookies or anything else. When they bundled up with this GLBA compliance package, a cookie blocking banner that they install on your website (and by default it 100% blocks all third party cookies), so if you watch pixel activity for a store that installs that, it goes boom, just falls off a cliff, it’s gone. We’re not tracking events, we’re not tagging people for retargeting. You’ve basically turned off your Facebook advertising by putting this pixel on the site. So the store that, the first one that we started working with together, this Chevy store had that pixel installed. And yet, so all of our stuff plummeted – except our retargeting audience did not even take a hit. It stayed completely steady because we were backfilling all of that lost pixel tagging with their audience. So our retargeting was able to chug along and still deliver when normally, (and we’ve seen it happen) that audience would drop to 10% of what it should be. So, that ended up being a lifesaver for their results because we were still able to retarget 100%, because of their data that we were incorporating. 

Chris Kerr
Yeah, and it’s, it’s really because we serve a first party cookie, right? We’re not serving a third party cookie, um, in that situation. So we’re able to get by. It’s funny, you made me think maybe I should target all Comply Auto customers. That’s who we should go after next. Thank you for setting up my next target audience.

David Lemmon
It’s a bad idea. I mean, you know I hate to call somebody out, but, but this is just a really bad practice that has damaged a lot of dealers that I’ve had to remove it from 30 plus sites already.

Chris Kerr
Well, when I think about that, I always think to myself, “if somebody in the dealership signs that agreement that is probably not…doesn’t have anything to do with marketing or is somehow tied to the sales of vehicles, if they knew how it was hamstringing their ability to (you know) target individuals that have an affinity for their brand”. They’re showing up on their website, they’re shopping, they’re doing all of those things. If they had any idea of the impact, the negative impact it was having on them, they wouldn’t do it. And I don’t think, they don’t have to worry about it at all. Cookies will go away when Chrome and Google deprecate it for Chrome in ’24 or whenever they kick that can down the road. 

David Lemmon
’24 ish. I think it will probably be more like ’26. 

Chris Kerr
Yeah. Well it’s, it’s an interesting war that is being waged and marketers like us are all kind of cut up in the middle of it.

David Lemmon
Right. 

Chris Kerr
The war is between Google and Apple. We are, you know, we are outsiders looking in (somewhat Facebook). But you know, it’s the… Google makes their money, you know. In digital advertising, search, and everything else. And Apple makes their money on apps, so-

David Lemmon
Well, they have a DSP now. So, you know, that’s, that’s an interesting twist, right? 

Chris Kerr
Yeah. 

David Lemmon
Apple’s suddenly getting very much into the advertising game with both feet really fast. We’ll see how that all kind of pans out. But that’s the thing, like, you know, we’re starting to explore Pinterest as another channel. Well, guess what? Pinterest retargets using a pixel. You wanna run Amazon ads? Amazon has a pixel, they retarget. So you’re not just breaking your Facebook ads by installing a pixel like that or a banner like that.

Chris Kerr
Yeah.

David Lemmon
You’re breaking most of your third party digital advertising. And-

Andrew Street
And what’s surprising, are you seeing this, Dave? Are people surprised when you tell them? 

David Lemmon
They have no idea, and they’re furious.

Andrew Street
Like, I didn’t know that.

David Lemmon
No, they are furious. I mean, inevitably. So what, what we’ve seen is, is I usually tell the dealers, “look, you have two options. You can either have them set it to just not block by default, and somebody can opt out or you can just have ’em remove it entirely”. Several of them so far are so mad that they’re just, “Nope, take it off. Don’t, I don’t…just take it off. I don’t want it on my site. I have no idea it did this, I had no idea that it wasn’t required by any kind of law”. Like even California, where you have CCPA, and the requirements are a little bit stricter (not a little, they’re a lot stricter), even the Facebook pixel there, by using something called LDU still can be 100% compliant. And doesn’t need to be blocked by any kind of cookie blocking. So it’s just this massive overreach to protect you from imaginary [threats]. You’re protecting yourself from the boogie man. There is nobody coming after you. Like we, you know, Chris and I are sitting in Ohio right now. Nobody’s coming after you in Ohio for hitting them with a retargeting act. There’s no law that says they can’t. It’s, it’s compliant with everything on earth and almost every state, it’s 100% compliant to do that.

Chris Kerr
And, and it’s user friendly. I mean, the reality is, is that consumers like to see ads that are relevant to them. Right? Just think of yourself as a consumer. Those are the types of ads you want to see. And so, you know, the idea that you’re not gonna be able to do that should be pretty scary from a marketing’s perspective. In fact, I feel like there should be more blogs and white papers written about this, and we should probably take the lead on that. We just haven’t, I don’t know if it’s, we just don’t have time or whatever it is, but I do feel like there’s a, there’s a hole in the industry that needs to be filled by. By some people that wanna– 

Andrew Street
Right, and what’s like, what’s great about it too is it gives us opportunities. ‘Cause everyone’s gonna have a label. Everyone always has the same tricks and the same tools and the same level playing field. And if we can have these types of conversations, these types of partnerships, these types of getting out ahead of it to test things out and be ready to where once legislation and updated pixel policies happen. We’ll have the, we’ll be the advertisers in the market that are able to be able to still target, be able to grow retargeting pools, be able to start nurturing the funnel when everybody else is just going carpet bombing the whole entire city. 

Chris Kerr
Yeah. Spend a lot of money on a lot of people that are not interested in buying cars.

David Lemmon
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we’ve already, a lot of our audiences are, are now. First party data, third party data. They’re defined audiences that are less reliant on that kinda stuff. But the catch is to optimize your ads. You wanna optimize them for the important events. You know, as, as Sean said, a little bit ago, I don’t call my dealers and talk to ’em about what their cost per click was and how many clicks they had and what their click through rate was, because that doesn’t mean a damn thing to them. They care about what happened when they got to my website. What did they do that was meaningful to me in selling more cars or scheduling more service or getting more trades, and those types of reporting, the, that type of of tracking and conversion reporting and optimizations for the ads themselves are generated by the cookie. Right. Those are generated by the pixel. Now there’s some things you can do like conversions, API and some other things that, that we’re actually getting into right now that, that can help with that. Cause, you know, conversions API allows you to do a server side versus, you know, through a, through a cookie. But I mean, this is hugely impactful and I’ve talked to a lot of other vendors in the space specifically about this thing with the, the, the banner. My wife is a digital marketing person that with, with a competing brand that has automotive clients, they know nothing about it. And sure enough, I told her about it and she looked at, at the local dealership group that she works with here in Columbus and said, “that’s weird. I wonder.” And first thing that pops up is the ComplyAuto. And she’s like “oh no” and I’m like, “yeah, you better jump on top of this, because your reporting is about to just fall off a cliff. You’re gonna go from, you know, ‘Hey, you had 3,000 VDPs last month and you have 10 this month'”.

Chris Kerr
The sad thing is they’re, you know, you’re playing off of fear a bit, right? So there’s, there’s so much unknown, most people don’t, don’t have time to live in that legal world that’s ever changing, right? And so out of fear, they just wanna be protected. They wanna protect their customer data, they wanna protect everything. So they just say “let’s, yeah.” Then you use carpet bomb everything. So, they don’t realize, they’re going beyond what they need to be doing and then, you know, hindering and impacting their marketing strategies. 

David Lemmon
So, yeah, I had another client that was freaked out about GLBA earlier this year and we’re like, “Hey, you know, we wanna advertise to your sold not serviced audience, put them into Facebook so we can, you know, bring them back in and get them to service with you. Hey, we wanna advertise to some people with expiring leases and tell ’em to, to come on in.”

“Oh, I can’t share that with you. I can’t. GLBA we can’t, we can’t run those audiences.”

And I’m like “yeah, that has nothing to do with GLBA at all.”

Sean McLean
And some of the best audience audiences to use. 

David Lemmon
Yeah, that’s, I mean, that’s what we wanna hit first and foremost, is that first party data. 

Andrew Street
And like you’re saying, there’s small audiences, but they’re so definable and so affordable to reach.  If it’s like what Dave was saying, if it’s, you know, that’s a thousand people, that’s gonna be your $60, $50 ad campaign you’re running.

Chrs Kerr
And there’s not a higher converting audience, right? Of all the audiences that you could do retargeting, audiences are gonna typically convert at a much higher rate, but they’re just smaller audiences. So how do we–  

David Lemmon
Yeah. And that’s the measurement you guys have, right? That’s the insight that, that Chris and Sean bring the dealers is to say, and, and it’s, I’ve had a lot of chance to see what they do really up close and personally, it’s super cool because. You’ll have a customer and it literally tracks their whole journey, right? You know, you made this sale and they’re gonna tell you all the touch points by all the people you pay as a dealer and kind of weight them. So, you know, the, these, some are more valuable than others, but it’s truly a complete journey. It’s, you know, VLA to Car Gurus, to Facebook, to, you know, paid search to your Google business page. You know, on and on and on to how they got from started shopping to bought a car and you know, very few companies in our space right now have a better picture of what’s influencing shoppers and what audiences are working and what marketing is working and, you know, all of those kind of things been, I mean it’s what they’ve been doing for a long, long time and you know that the, the first party candidates– is not, I mean, first of all, dealers are terrible at retaining their business. They’re just bad at it. You know, the, the retention strategy for most stores is to say, “Hey, we’re having a slow month. Somebody hit send on the CRM email and get that thing sent out.” Whereas that audience should be in everything they’re doing, and now you’ve got dealers scared to share it, or prepared to spend a hundred thousand dollars a month to get it into a CDP.

Chris Kerr
Well, the thing is about, you know, I think of how many dollars are spent to drive traffic to a dealer’s website, right? You just think of the advertising that every dealer is doing that you work with. They’re spending a ton of money and-

David Lemmon
Yeah, it’s like 70 grand per store on average or something like that, just on digital.

Chris Kerr
And most people that go to a dealership website don’t return. Right. I think you probably have some stats on that. You know it, I think the math that we had on it was somewhere around 90%, you know of the traffic doesn’t return, and so it is smart. To be retargeting those people every possible place that you can on the open web. The product that we’re offering right now is just for meta. Ultimately I think we’ll be able to port those audiences in some other places and we’re doing some testing on that right now as we speak. Sean has already been testing that for a while, but you know, the idea that you would spend that much money and then just let them go through, you know, the holes in the bucket, or block your own ability to reach those people through, you know, hiring some, you know, some providers that are blocking your ability to do that is just crazy to me. And we’re not trying to, I know we get sometimes we’re the bad guy in the space, right? We’re…”Well, Clarivoy said, you guys aren’t working for us.” Well, you know, the problem that we’ve had. And so that’s fine. Some people can use us that way and that’s fine. But we’re not here to, we’re not here to, like I said before, hatchet people off. Right. We’re here to turn knobs and to adjust and optimize and we don’t think that you can optimize what you don’t measure. We just think that lever, everybody’s kind of been measuring a lot of the wrong things or been told to measure a lot of the wrong things. And so that’s, you know, that’s one of the areas, to your point, Dave, and, and how you were kind of explaining what we do, showing that journey. It, they do several different things. We see on average 21 different touchpoints over 61 days. Like we see a big journey of you know, of the consumer behavior. The, the problem is that typically, every vendor wants to claim credit. For the, for the sale. Right? Or, you know, and so then, you know, the dealer doesn’t have a clue who they should believe because everybody’s claiming credit for the sale. But the reason is– 

David Lemmon
The dealer sold it. 

Chris Kerr
Yeah. Well, in the end, yeah.

David Lemmon
Yeah.

Chris Kerr
That’s, that’s the, that’s a former customer. That’s a former customer we just watched, do 180 things online before they came in and bought a car from you. They tried not to, but they didn’t, you know? 

Andrew Street
And the last thing they did is they went to Google Maps and it’s like, okay, well I guess Google Maps maybe did it-

Chris Kerr
Yes.

Andrew Street
-they found dealership through Google Maps and drove here.

David Lemmon
And you know, though, it’s interesting. It’s interesting that you say that because you know, Chris, you and I have had conversations over the years. Where we’ve had a shared store, I think we added originally with, with maybe one of the Baxter stores way back in the day? And the Clarivoy reports were indicating that our, what we were doing, this was not, I wasn’t, at the time the Clarivoy Report said what we were doing wasn’t that successful, wasn’t providing that much, you know, strong– we weren’t a strong piece in the buyer’s journey. Pretty, pretty consistently, and, frankly it inspired us to make some changes. It it, it had us change strategy. It had us have a, a very frank comp– it was never a situation where I was like, you know, “screw those guys.” They dunno what they’re talking about, or, you know, Clarivoy just not to get me. It was an opportunity to do better and that’s, you know, if everybody works together instead of being convinced that it’s just a battle, we all make each other better. You know, you, Chris, you and I had a conversation like a year ago. About somebody that didn’t have great reporting through you, that was a client of ours here at OMG. And part of what we came to through that conversation was that Facebook is tough because it’s, you know, a walled garden to so to speak. So, you know, a lot of the insight is, is really limited and that was, that allowed me to have a conversation with that dealer who’s still a client and say, “Hey, you know, I know the Kaisers of Claremont. I think they’re awesome at what they do. They’ll be the first ones to tell you that.” You know, their, their knowledge of the Facebook touches is a little more limited because it’s so walled off. Um, but at the same time, there’s things we can do to, to help improve that, you know, to, to drive, you know, maybe it’s changing the UTM code, maybe it’s, you know, there’s a million things we can do that’s going to make that visibility better and stronger. And the kind of feedback we get from you. Sean Welsh is a, is one of my really good friends and he’s, and he, you know, we, we have a lot of shared dealerships. I, I could have Sean Welsh stay at my house for a week and eat at my dinner table every day. And the day he gets back, he looks at a report that says that our stuff sucks. And Sean’s gonna fire me, and I’m not gonna take that personally. That’s, that’s been really his job. Just like it’s your job. If somebody’s underperforming, it’s not personal, it’s not an attack. It’s, and, and the way you should take it is be better, you know? 

Chris Kerr
I love how open-minded. Dave Lemmon is. So progressive. I love it. I love it. 

Andrew Street
Yeah. 

Chris Kerr
No, but you, you’re right though. If, if more of us could be like that in all, in all honesty, you know, in the industry, if we all kind of were, were clamoring, you know, on behalf of the dealer, I think we’d all be in a better place. And I’ve worked with enough. You know, vendors over since my time, uh, since I’ve been at Clarivoy, so 2016, uh, I guess so, you know, seven years plus of, of working with and alongside of vendors and, and you start to see man, there are really some good ones out there that care a ton about their dealers. You know, they are doing everything they can and you know, if with a little bit of help, you know, they could even do more. And so I think, and when I say more, I mean more for the dealer, so, right. So the help the dealer. So I think that if, if more of us would kind of open these, you know, lines of communication and dialogue, I think that it would be beneficial for our ultimate clients.

Andrew Street
Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, like this conversation that we’re having right now, it’s not that we’re. Specifically partnered in a way that it benefits me to have my competitors sign up with you guys. Except the only thing is like, Hey, you guys have unearthed something. We’re testing it out and it really works well, let’s talk. Let’s discuss it. And then maybe this could be something that a lot more dealers start to adopt to be ahead of the cookies crumbling and ahead of. You know, losing the ability to be able to retarget and losing the ability for them to have loyal customers because they start losing that ability to target their own customer database where there’s people doing common good out there like you guys, and it’s, it’s worthy of a conversation about the platform, it’s like, let’s record it. Let’s talk about what we’re finding.

David Lemmon
It’s full transparency. You know, we’ve had conversations. We’re not monetizing this in any way. What this does is it makes what we do work better, and that is all we care about. I’m not looking to, to make direct income off of this partnership. The benefit for me is, is that when I call a dealer and start having a reporting call, I can say, look at this jump, look at this improved performance because of this partnership that we’ve built.

Andrew Street
Yeah.

David Lemmon
That’s the-

Andrew Street
Yeah. I’m not gonna say go to Clarivoy put in promo code “Andrew” for yeah the first month. free. 

Chris Kerr
We gotta do that. We gotta set that up. 

Andrew Street
Yeah. Let’s wind this down- I’m a, you know, I’m a fan of what you guys are up to. I think you might have something really attractive by the tail right now that, that’s really helping. I know there’s some players trying to de-anonymize traffic from different things, but it’s not, really applying the way that, that you guys have it where it’s practical and you guys take it far enough to where it’s really actionable for dealers or for agencies to take it and start running immediately, which is great. So yeah, I wish this conversation was more controversial and gossipy and juicy, but like what you guys are doing is legit and yeah, I’m a fan. Chris, Sean. 

Chris Kerr
Thanks for having us on. Certainly appreciate it. 

Andrew Street
I don’t know if people watched this or listened to it, but this was Dave Lemmon that was on here too. I never mentioned his name. He, he was the graveley third voice, fourth voice. 

David Lemmon
I’ve got my show voice still from Tampa, so 

Andrew Street
Well look, let’s keep, let’s keep a finger on the pulse of, of how these are performing for us and if we need to do it a case study or something. We’ll make Keith available ’cause he actually makes it happen. We just talk about it. Yeah.

David Lemmon
 Yeah. Somebody on our team with follow through on things like this should definitely take over. Cause I have not done everything I’m supposed to do. We, we should be launching this with a lot more stores and, and I have slow walked that a little bit so that accelerate pretty quickly here.

Chris Kerr
Yeah, it’s all right. I mean, I think cookieless, you know, cookieless retargeting, identity based retargeting. You know, the things that we call it and being able to do that is not what I think a lot of people think that I need to start thinking about that because that’s coming down the road. It’s actually here and it’s a problem right now and most people just don’t know that. So if we can just do nothing but educate people about that piece of it first right? Then I think, you can begin to have some deeper dialogue. 

David Lemmon
I think that’s a great point. This isn’t preparing. This is happening. You know, Safari users after iOS 14, you know, after all those updates, you have lost people out of your retargeting audience today, not next year today it is smaller than it should be, and this is a way to recapture that audience. 

Chris Kerr
And it’s significant. I mean, you can go into your own Google Analytics and look at the people that are coming, right? And you could get a pretty good, you know, pulse, finger on the pulse of how many those are. But I mean, I was talking to a Chicago Land dealer and their numbers were closer to 70% of their traffic. We see on average 40%, but you know, theirs was like 70%. So there’s, there’s a lot that a lot of opportunity out there to, to fix some immediate problems. 

David Lemmon
I love it. 

Andrew Street
Yeah. And I’m sorry if you guys couldn’t hear Sean and Chris, they don’t have professional microphones. Might have been some dead air in the middle. All right, gentlemen. We’ll keep you posted on how things go, but, thank you for  being willing to join us and test out some cool products and building cool products. 

Chris Kerr
It was our pleasure guys. Appreciate it. 

David Lemmon
Absolutely.Thanks guys. 

Sean McLean
Yeah, thanks.